It all started with an algorithm that matches print job requirements with production machine specifications and immediately outputs prices. A few years later, the Cologne-based start-up sourc-e has become a full-service print broker that, with a team of 40 and an international network of 250 print shops, is rethinking the purchasing of print products and, above all: digitizing them. In the new episode of Zipper’s Insights, Bernd Zipper talks to sourc-e founder and CEO Lucas Scherer.
Read a slightly abridged version of the podcast interview here or listen to the full conversation in German on the podcast on ZIPPERS INSIGHTS or on Spotify.
Bernd Zipper: So, yes, here we are again after a short break. Lucas Scherer is here from sourc-e. What does sourc-e actually mean?
Lucas Scherer: Sourc-e comes from the digitization of purchasing. I derived it from sourcing and then I thought we had to bring digitization into it and so we put a minus between the “c” and the “e” and that’s why we always say sourc-e.
Bernd Zipper: That sounds good. Unfortunately, no one can really imagine what it means. So what is it?
Lucas Scherer: I don’t originally come from the printing industry. I’m a trained business economist and worked in management consulting for a long time. I advised many companies on the purchasing side and realized that there are many recurring activities that, in my view, need to be automated. I got to know the print industry very well because at the time I was advising Europe’s biggest magazine publisher, but also one of Europe’s biggest retailers, and there I was always in touch with print. From my point of view, there was a lot of potential for what could be done differently. I wanted to take a closer look at that and found that there were recurring processes: I specify my needs, see who can produce it, get quotes, evaluate them, and then have an overview of who I can buy what from. This process usually takes ten or 15 days. And that’s when I said, it can’t be that I do this over and over again; you have to automate it somehow. So, I thought about what could be a starting point for this and realized we could go via the costing service. Together with Felix, I developed an algorithm that allows us to enter specifications and immediately get a price because it calculates on the producers’ machine data.
Bernd Zipper: So, long story short: you’re digitizing print purchasing?
Lucas Scherer: I’m digitizing print purchasing, right.
Bernd Zipper: You started in 2016. That makes it over six years that you’ve been underway with sourc-e. Has it all worked out the way you imagined?
Lucas Scherer: The company has developed considerably during that time. I mean, we also had to [struggle with]Corona, and the market in general has changed a bit, but what’s important is that we’ve come through these six years quite well, we’ve continued to grow consistently, and we’ve established ourselves. Initially, yes, I said we started with digitizing the purchasing process. At some point, however, we realized that this is not exactly what our customers actually want. So we have successively developed as a company and today we are actually a full-service print broker.
That means that you come to us as a company or as a group and want to procure print products, print on paper, packaging, textiles or merchandise products. What we do is, we provide these companies with a system with interfaces to their ERP systems and throughout their processes. They are embraced by us holistically. What we initially developed, the algorithm, we now use as a tool for ourselves, and we mainly use it internally. And that is where the company has developed: We provide print products for companies and only use the algorithm internally in this form.
Bernd Zipper: So, what’s the difference between you and Gelato, for example, which does something similar?
Lucas Scherer: We have an algorithm that works across all production processes. That means we have digital printing, sheetfed offset printing, web offset printing, and we always have an immediate price, thanks to the network behind it of over 250 service providers in 17 countries. And that, I think, is the fundamental difference here.
Bernd Zipper: We do a lot of tests and every now and then position a print job with one or the other online printer. By the way, also with you, but you will not notice that. And there we always have the issue of quality, above all recurring quality. That’s a big issue. How do you deal with it?
Lucas Scherer: This is a very important question, because we place great emphasis on quality. We work with large companies and groups that all have auditing processes and also audit us regularly. That’s why we say: We are only as good as our network is. That’s why we audit each of our partners in advance and also monitor quality throughout. In addition, every customer has the opportunity to evaluate every order. So, we have an internal evaluation system. And as soon as you fall below a certain threshold, you are also delisted. This gives us extremely high quality because a) we know where which job is going and b) we also share some of the feedback with the print shops. And if it doesn’t work anymore, they’re taken out.
Bernd Zipper: That means you’ve already thrown out print shops, too?
Lucas Scherer: Not just one. Yes.
Bernd Zipper: You have 250 partners now. Is that just a virtual connection or do you really know them personally?
Lucas Scherer: We really know them personally. We usually go there – during Corona, of course, it was a bit difficult – but we have to know what kind of machines are there, how the processes work, whether it’s all clean. If we can put a green tick behind it everywhere, then we include it in the system. This is important for us because we always want to address the best machine for each order. That’s why we are successively expanding this platform.
Bernd Zipper: Do you deal with the presses directly or do you deal with the print shop?
Lucas Scherer: The print shop that has this press.
Bernd Zipper: I’m a printer and would like to join you: What happens?
Lucas Scherer: First of all, we talk to you and see how you’re set up. Then we go through a quality questionnaire and identify together what kind of machinery you have. Does that help us in the platform or are you the 20th printer with exactly this machine? At this point we would have to say, that’s not added value now, neither for you nor for us. We need competitive producers, and that’s what we identify it through. In addition, it is also confronted with a price level, because we say it must be played openly and fairly. Those are the rules. If we put a green light everywhere then it fits.
Bernd Zipper: Now there is the issue of paper, the issue of material costs, personnel costs and so on. Everything is increasing, dramatically in fact. You could even say there’s a paper crisis. How do you deal with this, in terms of price adjustment, so that the printer also earns something from it?
Lucas Scherer: Well, for us it’s important that we always find the press that’s technically perfect. For example, if we have inquiries from a certain area for which we have the right machines, but on which we can’t produce 100 percent perfectly, we go on a targeted search to find the perfect price. We don’t want to have partners in the system where we really have to take an extremely favourable cost rate, but we want to obtain beyond the technical specifications. The best example is a product with a shortened section. So, we also need a machine with a shortened section. It’s no use taking a normal DIN A4 standardized machine and then having to throw away all the paper waste. We take one directly that cuts shorter and the paper roll or sheet is correspondingly narrower, and the raw material does not have to be wasted there. That’s where the cost savings come in, and that’s where you get a good price – and not because the cost rate is favourable.
Bernd Zipper: There are all kinds of different models among online printers. How many of the 250 print shops in your network have now dropped out again?
Lucas Scherer: This is an issue that we call supply relationship management. It’s important to balance the network. That you ask yourself how you can ensure that the producers also get orders. It’s no use if we have a super producer with great conditions and he gets all the orders, and everyone else sees nothing. We have to counteract that a bit and make sure that all partners are treated equally or get the same number of productions. That’s why it’s very important for us to keep an eye on this. Yeah, and that’s how we guarantee that.
Bernd Zipper: Yes, but the question was, how many are already out? Of their own accord.
Lucas Scherer: Of course, you also have to take into account the general market situation. We are just entering a phase where demand is still falling. And the capacities were already not fully utilized before. Some of them will automatically disappear. For us, there is not as much, because we simply make sure that there is also a certain stability behind it. In addition to quality, we also need a certain solvency. But I think that in total we have lost maybe five to ten partners of our own accord in the last six years.
Bernd Zipper: Onboarding the printers is one thing. The other is getting jobs in. How do you manage that?
Lucas Scherer: On the one hand, we focus on large companies and corporations that have a hodgepodge of productions. We relieve them of the purchasing workload, because in some cases they can no longer manage it themselves because they don’t have the capacity to manage five to ten print shops. We provide them with a contact person. We take care of everything and ensure flawless production. That means we have an acquisition channel in place. We have found that the system we have developed works extremely well. And we would like to do even more for our partners, i.e. the print shops. We see that the general market situation is going down and the print shops no longer have the utilization on their machines that they need. But we have a pretty well functioning network, so we have set up a reseller system through which we specifically give our partners the opportunity to use our system. The one that we use internally, and through which we know exactly what the customer actually needs. This gives print shops the opportunity to buy products that they might not be able to produce themselves because a) they don’t have the capacity, b) they might not have the paper, or c) they simply don’t have the technical equipment.
This is also a very, very exciting trend that we are currently seeing, with some print shops – we have two specific cases right now – shutting down their machinery and only trading in orders. They are using our system because it enables them to generate sales at significantly lower costs. That’s very exciting right now and something where we’re saying we want to strengthen our network and our partners who are working with us. They can produce for us, so for our customers. On the other hand, we also want to give them the opportunity to make more sales.
Bernd Zipper: You’ve been on the market for six years. Did you think it would take that long for you to really get up to speed?
Lucas Scherer: To be honest, we had a bit of a standstill in general in the industry due to Corona. And yes, I would have thought we would get to where we wanted to go faster. I thought we had a system where you put the spec in and have a price right away. The only thing I need is the machine data. But I underestimated the fact that the printers would tell us, hey guys, you’re not getting our press data unless we get an order for it. And of course, we didn’t have an order because we didn’t have the system ready. That was a chicken-and-egg problem that dragged on a lot because we had to do a lot of convincing.
I got to know the printing industry as a very traditional sector. I had underestimated that as a consultant at the time. I was sitting on the side of Europe’s biggest magazine publisher. Of course, it has volume, of course it has standing in the industry. Of course, I didn’t have that when I founded the company. You have to provide security; you have to show that you have a sustainable solution – and that simply takes time. That’s why I’m extremely proud of where we are right now. In six years, we’ve established something really great in a sustainable way. We have 250 partners who are very happy to work with us and it’s gradually growing and – to emphasize this again – this reseller network is also being met with a great deal of approval. Because the partners see that we not only give them orders, but also help them in other areas by creating an expanded sales opportunity for them to sell something that they don’t even have themselves. This shows how incredibly important it is to involve everyone and implement this production together.
Bernd Zipper: To what extent did you struggle – I’ll say – with the poor digitization of some print shops?
Lucas Scherer: That’s been a very exciting challenge, because we initially need to get into the calculation process. And there are different prerequisites here. One has a specific system that he uses, the second an Excel spreadsheet, the third does everything on a sheet of paper with a pencil and always calculates differently. We first had to get a grip on this and counteract this initial step in the lack of digitization. At some point, we also understood better how to take our colleagues by the hand. That’s why we also set up our own team to provide input support. And that’s working really well.
Bernd Zipper: But that also means that the process is not completely digitalized, but you have a key account manager for the brand owner who takes care of it. They can use the system and run standard products automatically, but is there also a contact person when it comes to something special?
Lucas Scherer: Exactly, there is. That’s what’s important to me. We have customer consultants who can advise the procurer on the specification and the product. And I mean – you know the printing industry yourself – there are so many peculiarities, especially if you leave the standard area and want, for example, an individual format, individual papers or also an individual quality.
Bernd Zipper: The magic word is register punch.
Lucas Scherer: Yes. At some point, comprehensive digitization comes to an end. We have managed to get these two processes together. What we’ve also discovered is that customers don’t need a price in a matter of seconds; they’re happy to wait two days if they know they’ll get the very best advice. That’s why we developed the full-service print broker model. This means you really get everything from us.
Bernd Zipper: Of course, you have to keep in mind that you don’t have an online store, so you don’t have this immediate fulfilment of needs and don’t have to show the price right away. That’s why you have to differentiate a bit between B2B and B2E, “to enterprise”. With an online store, people naturally want to have a price right away and know immediately when they’re going to get the stuff delivered. Preferably before they have even sent the data.
Lucas Scherer: You have to differentiate at this point. We set up closed systems for the companies. This means, for example, that you can order business cards directly via the business card editor, and they are produced and delivered immediately. Of course, there is a price behind this. In the same way, you have products that are perhaps pre-produced and in stock and then delivered via a fulfilment centre. Here, too, you have a price directly behind it. It’s about the tender products, where we can price 80 percent immediately. And then another 20 percent – such as with register punching, where there are so many special processes that you have to store another manual process.
Bernd Zipper: To what extent do you notice the competition? In fact, you are completely in the “blue ocean”, i.e., service, B2B, closed systems, API connections and so on, and therefore not the “red ocean”, where it’s all about the price war. To what extent do you notice the competition, because everyone now wants to somehow go in that direction: the big online printers say, “we need key account managers, we need to do more for B2B”. There are smaller ones that are spreading out in that direction. There’s something new from Helloprint, there’s Printful, there’s Gelato and so on. The market is almost fiercely competitive again, isn’t it?
Lucas Scherer: Yes, it is indeed fiercely competitive, and it is growing. I can see it in the fact that some online printers are using our system to be able to price these individual products. They’re starting to build individual teams in some cases to be able to take these requests, but then they run into a problem when they need 200 people to be able to always put these products out to bid and get prices. By using our solution, they may not need quite as much and then they can grow faster.
Moreover, I can see that people are trying to develop more into this solution provider and I can also see that many are always limiting themselves to their own product portfolio. In other words, some of the individual productions cannot be mapped via their processes. Be it print shops that are simply trying to utilize their own machines to capacity or online print shops that are trying to force customers into accepting the standard. In other words, I see the first movements in this direction, but not yet an integrated competitor.
Bernd Zipper: Especially for hip, modern young companies, it is modern to work with missions and visions. What is your vision?
Lucas Scherer: The vision is that we expand the quality of our work in a sustainable manner and take our partners by the hand. After all, we are only as good as the network behind it. We attach great importance to this. We now have an internationally functioning network. We want to successively expand it and continue along the path we have taken. We want to gradually develop into a full-service provider – even beyond Germany’s borders.
Bernd Zipper: When you work with print shops, when you work with brand owners, when you do enterprise business, these are sometimes huge sums of money. Are you the ones who collect the money and pass it on to the printer? Or are you doing a B2B connection? In the past, it was often the case that you made partial down payments or partial payments depending on the progress of the project. Or is that completely digitalized for you?
Lucas Scherer: It’s completely digitalized, and we pay our producer in full, and the customer pays us. And there’s a margin in between, of course. We take responsibility for the production and that also includes the solvency ability of the partners behind it. That is the risk we bear.
Bernd Zipper: Has anything bad ever happened to you, that someone simply broke away?
Lucas Scherer: Yes, indeed, something bad has happened to me, twice. But that’s exactly why it’s really important for us to have a reasonable rating and to check it continuously. Especially in the area in which we are active, we are rapidly involved in productions larger than 10,000 euros. Of course, these are sums that disappear directly. So, you have to be careful.
Bernd Zipper: Do you work with credit insurance, or do you simply have to make sure you have enough money in your account?
Lucas Scherer: It’s the combination that makes it. Credit insurance is sometimes very expensive. We don’t have such high margins that we can say we’ll easily give away 3 percent, which won’t work at this point. But where it is absolutely necessary, we do it, of course.
Bernd Zipper: I can imagine that banks don’t have much fun granting you an overdraft facility or giving you flexibility. That’s why you actually always have to bury a few gold bars in the basement.
Lucas Scherer: At best. Or simply gradually and sustainably increase it. And in the meantime, we have a free cash flow that we can use to service this very well. That’s why I say it’s important to me that we continue along this sustainable path and grow together. You can sense that there are tremendous opportunities for growth.
Bernd Zipper: When you look back over the years: What was your biggest disappointment? Where you say, hey, I didn’t think it would be like this?
Lucas Scherer: What I found incredibly blatant was that this market is so extremely closed. When you look at the print market and see that there are over 4,000 suppliers – I thought they were all open to bringing in a new vibe with digitization, because for the last 20, 30 years, it felt like nothing was happening. But in fact, nothing did, and that already made it extremely difficult, especially in the beginning. You just have to make a name for yourself and do good work in a sustainable way.
I remember when we had one of our first appointments with a very large print shop at the very beginning. They invited us and then said, “We really only invited you to prove to ourselves that what you’re doing here doesn’t work. That was very disappointing for Felix and me at the time, we had never experienced anything like it. But this print shop approached us again a year ago and said, “hey, it didn’t work out then, but we realize that what you proposed back then works and we want to go down this path with you.” You can’t force digitization, it’s a process that simply takes time. But yes, I would have imagined it differently at the beginning.
Bernd Zipper: What has been your biggest fail so far?
Lucas Scherer: Honestly, it was the issue of extreme growth. We grew over 800 percent from ’18 to ’19. At the end of 2019, I said, now we have to really invest in it and bring in more great people to fuel this growth. Then, of course, we made extremely expensive purchases and then Corona came along. We were in the middle of a restructuring, which was a pretty tough time. Looking back, I know that you don’t always have to do everything big right away; it’s also enough to bring people in step by step. But the experience also helps me now, when there is uncertainty in the market again, to deal with it better. Because I know that you might have to adopt a different tactical approach, with more milestones.
Bernd Zipper: We are in June 2022. There was a recovery at the beginning of the year, but now things are calming down again, or what is your feeling?
Lucas Scherer: I sense an extreme aggressiveness on the customer side in terms of cost saving. There was indeed a recovery at the beginning of the year. We had a brutally strong first quarter. But now you get into conversations with customers, and you realize they need to cut costs. They need to find ways to reduce costs. That’s where it gets heavily into consultative conversations: can we use a different paper? Can we maybe switch from four-color to one-color printing? Can we use other formats? What are the possibilities? You can tell that the brakes are being applied. We feel it from our partners, too, of course. That’s a bit of a concern in general, of course, and it’s also felt across national borders. We have producers in 17 countries and each market is a little different. But it is an uncertain time.
Bernd Zipper: We observe that mass customization and print on demand are hot topics and are also used by companies to save costs. Do you have any models for dealing with this?
Lucas Scherer: Yes, absolutely. We actually serve everything from single print runs to 20 million, and we really sit down with our customers and think about what the best possible solution is. On the one hand, of course, it’s about saving costs. But you also have the issue of sustainability, because many companies are paying more attention to not throwing away unnecessary production. That’s where I’m glad that we have digitalized our processes internally. This means we don’t lose any time in purchasing or other issues and can then use this time to advise the customer and consider what options there are here for quickly shifting from A to B.
Bernd Zipper: That would actually also be a learning experience for every other print shop: We essentially have to create more time to better advise our customers, especially in the area of mass customization and print on demand. So, if possible, digitize everything with sourcing and all that stuff, and implement it faster. I know people who need 20 minutes for a quote, and that has to happen much, much faster, in a much, much more digitalized way.
Lucas Scherer: Yes.
Bernd Zipper: And there are a few systems on the market that you can use because the printers have them. What’s it like when you request a special production from them? Does it then also take two days for someone to whip something out of the MIS or ERP system?
Lucas Scherer: That can happen, yes. Especially where there are manual processes, when you have the register punching, to use the example again. Then you have an estimator sitting there who writes you the offer accordingly. That’s why it’s also important to know where to ask for what, and not just to approach 50 print shops and then wait for an offer. And that’s where you can act in a much more targeted way, even with “simple means”.
Bernd Zipper: Let’s get back to the brand owners, to the enterprises, the major customers that you have. Do you notice that the importance of print has changed since the pandemic?
Lucas Scherer: Yes, even before the pandemic, to be honest. The classic print buyer that used to exist no longer exists in this form. Most of the requirements are now being placed in the indirect purchasing area. And the colleagues who do the purchasing buy a lot of product groups. And where there used to be production people, there are now trained buyers who are much more commercial, but who lack the know-how and do not have this emotional connection to a producer. They want a solution, and it has to work. They also no longer want to work with ten partners because they don’t have the capacity to act with these ten partners, but they want one contact person who takes care of everything.
Bernd Zipper: You were a bit evasive earlier: How do you get brand customers? It can’t be social media alone, but rather brands have to be inspired in a different way. Do you go to certain industry trade shows or how do you do it?
Lucas Scherer: Well, first of all, what we do is: We stand up and say that we’ll give you a comprehensive system; you’ll get a contact person who’ll be your guide, and you’ll also get a system that enables you to buy everything. This means that I have a very clear differentiation from a print shop, because I don’t just sell the print product.
Bernd Zipper: Understood.
Lucas Scherer: That’s the first thing. The second is that we have a very classic sales team. We make cold calls by phone, then make on-site appointments, make remote appointments and show what we can do. That’s basically all we do to convince customers of our capabilities.
Bernd Zipper: Buyers are always quick to jump on the cheapest offer. Do you then provide a bait-and-switch offer, or how do you go about it? There is the political idea of first saying, “Come on, I’ll make something quite cheap” and then afterwards “Fire away”.
Lucas Scherer: We actually make good offers all the time. We don’t make a teaser offer and then pull up the prices. That also contradicts our corporate DNA, because we come from a purchasing consulting background. That means our goal is always to realize a perfect shopping experience. That’s also what makes us tick, and we have to be able to withstand a request at any time. If you ever ask about the alternatives, that price always has to be good. Because, if it wasn’t, at some point the customer would ask, “say, what are you guys doing here?”. And we don’t want that discussion. We go into the race with prices that are very good. But they don’t always have to be the cheapest. It has to be a fair solution for everyone involved. But that way you then have consistently, sustainable good prices.
Bernd Zipper: How often do you lose out?
Lucas Scherer: As I said, I’m not selling a print product. This means that feedback can also come in that, yes, the price isn’t perfect, but the customer saves time via …
Bernd Zipper: …via the process costs.
Lucas Scherer: Yes, via the process costs. That’s also the sales argument: You have less internal effort, and the customer sees that and maybe pays two to three percent more. Then we still come together. The customers who, at the end of the day, only go for the price, you no longer have classic customer loyalty. But that’s not our target customer segment either. We go to large companies, we go to corporations, we embrace them comprehensively and they get everything at a top price. But I don’t go into a situation where I’m beating prices just for one order. That is not sustainable.
Bernd Zipper: Now it takes a lot of people, how many employees do you have right now?
Lucas Scherer: We have 40 people right now.
Bernd Zipper: 40 people. How do you find the right people for that?
Lucas Scherer: We put a lot of emphasis on HR, because the company can only be as good as the people behind it. And the better the people, the better the company. We place a lot of emphasis on this HR process and have a person who scouts continuously. That means she specifically looks for profiles. Then there’s a three-stage application process with two interviews and a case that they do at the assessment center. And if we have a super good feeling, then we say it’s a good fit. We also put a lot of emphasis on culture, because people have to work well together. There’s no point in bringing in a maverick who has nothing to do with culture. And all of this has meant that we now have very low staff turnover. We are growing successively with a very strong core team.
Bernd Zipper: Cool. Continuing Education. What does it look like there?
Lucas Scherer: We’ve introduced a new tool, which gives you the opportunity to take online courses. We say, “you get four credits a year and you have the option to book a course through that. Like this. Do it yourself. Just in the area where you want to develop, for example, Excel training. You can sign up for that. But you have to do it yourself and develop yourself further.” In addition, we also promote targeted training opportunities. For example, we now have a person who wants to do her master’s degree. We support that because we value her highly and want to retain her in the company. So there is an opportunity to approach us individually and address the issues.
Bernd Zipper: How would you describe your way of managing employees and the company? Are you a co-worker? Are you a landlord? Are you a team player?
Lucas Scherer: At the end of the day, I’m a very strong follower. I try to coach people and then give them responsibility and develop and grow in that role. The classic landlord issue, that’s where I’ve seen many times in the past that it doesn’t work and that’ s not how I would want to handle it at all. My experience as a management consultant also helps me here, because I have seen various companies with different cultures and different approaches. There are extreme differences. It’s important to me that I motivate a team and that they also have the opportunity to develop and think for themselves.
Bernd Zipper: When you look to the future, what are your next steps? Where do you want to go in the future?
Lucas Scherer: Well, I would like to further expand our full-service approach. That means, on the one hand, continuing to convince large companies and corporations of our merits. But what’s also very important to me is to take our partners with us, because I sense that there’s a kind of paradigm shift going on right now. There is a strong consolidation. The big companies are starting to buy smaller ones. And it’s important to me that I give those who are maybe in a weak position now, but are also part of the network, that I give them the opportunity to sort of swim free. And because at the end of the day, we’re all networked together and together we can build a strong base through that. That is what we specifically emphasize.
Bernd Zipper: Has that happened to you, that you lost companies to larger ones, which then no longer produce for you, but ended up with a large other printer?
Lucas Scherer: Yes, or actually with stationary printers who specifically buy more printers. I have two from the network that have now been absorbed into other organizations.
Bernd Zipper: Well. That’s the way it is with digitization. Now your life has just changed, your personal life. Before, you were on the consulting fast track. Now you’ve become a dad. First of all, congratulations.
Lucas Scherer: Thank you very much.
Bernd Zipper: Has your life changed a bit at the company?
Lucas Scherer: My life at the company… well, I’ve been a father for three months now. Yes, I think I’m getting a little bit calmer.
Bernd Zipper: That’s what you call mellowing out in old age. Or lack of sleep? One of the two.
Lucas Scherer: Hopefully the second.
Bernd Zipper: Lucas, I was very pleased that you had a little time for us. We will certainly talk again. Maybe we’ll get several people together and have a discussion about one thing or another. Whether companies like you, whether this really makes sense for the printing industry or whether this is the enemy. There have already been a few discussions in the run-up to this, about print brokers taking advantage of us and so on. We’ll discuss that sometime, and I’d like to invite you to join us now. I would like to thank you very much for taking the time. And of course, you guys out there can always give us feedback. If you want to know more about sourc-e, you can a) have a look at Beyondprint, there’s a lot there. You can also check out b) sourc-e.com. It’s definitely worth following the company to see how it’s developing and what else is going on. I believe that we can achieve much, much more with the topic of service and print and, above all, keep print valuable in the future. Lucas, thank you!